"...I think that the universe is our creator.

And to me the divine is the universe itself. And specifically

it’s manifestation as energy, as opposed to matter or as a

more tangible, palpable thing. And so far as I can tell, neither

science nor any religion can explain the origin of the

universe. If you talk about it—and SASHA did a good job of

satirizing this—the “big bang,” and so forth. The universe

was created in this big bang, and is so old. Okay, but if there’s

no universe and no temporal era, when did that happen,

where did it happen, and where did it come from? So you’re

still postulating the universe, basically. And if they say, “Okay,

this or that deity created it,” or that life actually came in interstellar

dust, you’re still just pushing away and farther back.

But where did that start? Where was this deity standing if

there was no universe? Where did she come from? Out of

what was this created? And so I just think that it’s something

that we can’t know. It’s unknowable. I haven’t experienced it

as plant-spirits, and so I can’t vouch for that particular way

of seeing it. But I would never say that it’s for pinheads or

pea-brains or whatever, or negate someone else’s perception

of it. I have to admit that that is possible. And it’s certainly

plausible. And so I try not to believe in anything, but the

other side of that coin is not to disbelieve in anything either.

And I try to just enjoy and live with the uncertainty of not

knowing. I just think there are things that we can not know.

The whole business of religion—and science has gone into

that same business, and now everybody and his brother is

exploiting the breach that science has more or less vacated

by not doing such a good job of it—is offering certainty to

people, when basically the universe gives us questions not

answers. People don’t want to live in uncertainty. RICHARD

FEYNMAN said it really well. He said, “I can live with doubt

and uncertainty and not knowing. I think it is much more

interesting to live not knowing than to have answers which

might be wrong…I don’t have to know an answer. I don’t feel

frightened by not knowing things, by being lost in a mysterious

universe without a purpose, which is the way it really is

as far as I can tell.”

-Jonathan Ott

Jonathan Ott Speaks part two

Interview with 'The Entheogen Review'